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Hello Vyxen, and happy new year to everyone; I was exhausted after mine!
It’s a pain when church buildings are shut, but unfortunately theft and vandalism are too big a problem to just leave them open all the time.
It probably doesn’t mean anything, but I find an east porch curious – is it a large building or a modern one? I’m not an expert on church architecture, but the eastern end of a traditional church building is where the high altar is positioned, and I would have thought that unless the building is very large you wouldn’t have a door in that end, and certainly not a main entrance. The south wall is a more traditional place for the main porch, though north and west are common enough as well.
Michael
Hello Vyxen,
We have family at opposite ends of England, so we’ll be in St Helen’s, Merseyside (home of Pilkington’s – the Glass with the Class) for a few days, then in Gravesend, Kent for New Year, taking in Brentwood in Essex (once voted Britain’s most boring town, and my own place of origin) before returning to Devon. Lots of quality time on England’s motorways – hurrah! However, I do hope to read the Rosicrucian pamphlets from the early 17th century, which I’ve printed out and stashed in my bag.
Give my regards to St Helen/Elen for me!
Whatever you celebrate at this time of year, or whatever you don’t, I hope everyone has a splendid time.
KHABS AM PEKHT – KONX OM PAX – LIGHT IN EXTENSION
Michael
Not too long ago I re-read Andrew Collins’ ‘The Seventh Sword’. One of the things that impressed itself on me that is relevent to this discussion is the sheer span of time covered by the book. The book covers a period from late 1979 to 1991 or 92, and even then the quest itself wasn’t over. The first Meonia sword and the Green Stone were found in 1979 and it looked like that was the end of the matter – closure! Time passed and suddenly the quest kicked off again. In some years nothing happened except for just one ‘event’, at other times a lot happened over days, weeks or months.
So I guess you never know.
Michael
Yuri has mentioned this before in the Questing Methods thread, but it’s worth saying again. I can vouch for the daily practice of ‘tuning-in’ and not just at a site of importance. Whatever the benefits in terms of questing, finding an exercise that you can do every day that leaves you ‘receptive’ is spiritually good for you. The sort of exercise described by Simon (the egg breath) is a good way to just open up to Light.
I found the hardest part to be hitting on a method that suits me. Whatever you try, you need to keep at it for at least a few weeks before deciding to try something different. And even if you drop a practice as not working for you, it has probably done something on a deep level which you can continue to build on when trying something else. Like Yuri says, it’s best not to expect too much; much is going-on in the depths that may not surface for a long time.
In terms of questing, a daily practice (in my opinion) also keeps you in readiness for the time when you may be called to a quest. And I also think that by regularly opening oneself it is more likely that you will begin to notice the things that can set you off on a quest to begin with. It may not make you a powerful psychic (it hasn’t for me so far), but it can make you more sensitive to the spiritual dimension that is always there. You may start to notice syncronicities and inner promptings which can be followed up (in my case these tend to lead me on voyages of discovey rather than to a muddy field, but I’m content with that).
Michael
The egg-breath sounds like a colourfull variation on the ‘Circulation of Light’ (a.k.a. circumambulation of light). This follows the same sort of pattern, up one side, down the other, then the front and back. It also has a movement where the light is visualised to start at the feet, and then spiral upwards and around the body until it reaches the crown of the head, wrapping one somewhat in the style of a mummy.
Michael
Just a quickie: I think I’ve seen that web page on Buddhist/Celtic triskelion’s a while ago. What is interesting is that the Chinese scholars (last I heard) think that the hares originally come from Persia; the major site(s) where the hares are found also have a lot of imagery that is traceable to the Sassanian Empire. If so, then although not originally a Buddhist symbol, some Buddhists adopted it, seeing in it an illustration of their worldview, just as Christians later adopted it and saw in it something else. And why not?
Hmmm, the womb (and the vulva) as the gateway of spirit into the world of matter. Makes sense.
Michael
Watching Orion rising over the Tor like that must be something; one of those things that you see and suddenly you aren’t just a witness but a participant, experiencing a connection to something powerful and profound. I can’t wait for you to finish your book Yuri (btw, how is the Dryad?).
As lord of the night sky, in winter I think there is no doubt about that; Orion is easily the most striking constellation, and easy to make out even in areas suffering lots of light pollution.
I wonder if Orion has always been seen as a human figure? To me it seems obviously humanoid, but I may be conditioned to see it that way. Greg Taylor of The Daily Grail wrote an interesting article on The God With Upraised Arm in 1999. There are similarities in the iconography of various Near Eastern deities with the constellation of Orion. For example, the ubiquitous ‘smiting pose’ of Horus and the pharaoh in Egyptian art is very reminiscent of the pose of Orion (using the full constellation of Orion, with arms waving and everything).
In terms of the Egyptian smiting pose, there is an idea of defeating chaos to establish order (Maat), and conquest could be seen as an extension of hunting. But thinking of Orion as the hunter, what is the significance of the hunt? This isn’t something I’ve ever thought about. To me the idea of a hunt carries an element of wildness. This being PsychicQuesting.com you could see the hunt in terms of a quest (and a certain acceptance of unpredictable wildness would seem a must for questing).
Michael
Thanks guys, I wasn’t expecting to see the thread fire up again. There has certainly been some interesting material thrown up, and I think it will take me a while to digest. Having said that, I’m going to inflict my thoughts on you all anyway.
I like the story about the witch and the hare. I believe that I’ve heard or read such stories before without ever thinking about the possible symbolism. I’m sure I’ve also heard variations where the ‘witch’ is a werewolf.
It seems to me that Perceval’s suggestion about the ears making the genitals of a triple goddess goes nicely with Simon’s earlier suggestion about them also forming a central womb shape, and also with the lines of the three-legged version of Brigit’s cross (the goddess Brigit having a triple aspect – so I’ve read anyway).
As to whether the correct way of viewing the crooked lines is as the three-legged cross or as a triangle, my own question is why does one have to be correct? My inclination is that both can be equally correct.
From looking at the websites that Perceval has pointed me to, I’ve also noted that the vesica piscis itself implies the number three in at least three ways:
1- it is a third shape created by interlocking two identical circles
2- the vertical line from the two ends is the square root of three (taking the radius of each circle to be one)
3- the centres of the circles (the widest point of the vesica piscis) together with the two ends creates within the v.p. two equalateral triangles.As well as the recociliation of opposites it is also a creative shape, implied in the vulva shape (nice sheela-na-gig by the way). Within it can be derived the line, the triangle and the square. We have some strong fertility associations going on here.
Especially for Yuri, here is the Chalice Well:
(from [url:1wh1sun0]http://www.geomancy.org/sacred_geometry/sacgeo-5.html[/url])
Best Regards,
Michael
Thanks Perceval, I have an idea of what you mean now. The ears are evocative of the Flower of Life and the vesica pistis (I see that the gothic arch is formed from the upper half of the vesica piscis, which also forms an equalateral triangle). Good stuff!
Michael
Perceval, can you recommend any websites for a beginner’s guide to sacred geometry and architecture? My pile of books to read is a mighty tower, and I don’t want to add to it at the moment. I particularly like what you said about the gestalt character of the Three Hares, and the similarity to Celtic imagery. At some point I want to visit some of those churches. As I live in Devon you wouldn’t think it would be that hard, but there’s always something else to do. Your comments make me wonder whether there is anything else ‘hidden’ in them.
Yuri, I beg your pardon, I had missed your original Lepus comments. I dug up some planetarium software and you can see Lepus set on the western horizon immediately followed by Orion. Conversely, on the eastern horizon this is reversed; you can see Orion rising with Lepus following directly behind. On western and eastern horizons the two dogs (Canis Major and Minor) are always following behind Orion and Lepus (someone had better tell Orion that hunting with dogs is illegal here in the UK!). Taurus is also there, always just ahead of Orion. I don’t know if Orion is hunting the bull or the hare, or if the randy bugger is really just chasing after those lovely Pleiades sisters? Also interesting is that they are all running to the river, Eridanus. Could that be the river of the underworld?
Also Yuri, your comment on the belt stars of Orion made me notice something else. But I think I’ll post that elsewhere as a topic of its own.
Cheers chaps,
Michael
Hello there Perceval,
I must confess that my knowledge of sacred geometry and sacred architecture is lacking at the moment; perhaps you could expand on this for my benefit, so I can add to my understanding of the Three Hares. I would say that the design could certainly incorporate such significance, especially as such things were presumably important to the people who actually built the churches and made the carvings.
I’ve gradually come to realise what most people here have probably known for a long time, that symbols never have a single fixed meaning. Different cultures and individuals can meditate on the same symbol and find a variety of interpretations. Some of those will be connected to each other, others may find opposing interpretations. Where there are opposing interpretations I think it is wise to bear in mind the principle of coincidentia oppositorum, the coincidence of opposites; truth is not somewhere between A and Z, but includes both A and Z, “the equilibrium of balance” as the Zohar’s Book of Concealed Mystery (Siphra Dtzenioutha) puts it (that is one possible meaning of the triangle). Symbols have a form of life independent of those who originally conceived them. The same can be said of sacred texts, which is why I’m not a fundamentalist.
I’ve learned a lot from the others here and my own delvings, so I would love to read anything else you can add. I thought I might as well put out a summary of what I’ve learned so far about the Three Hares, with a bit of free association, in no particular order:
Hares have strong lunar associations, which may be partly because of their nocturnal activities and their month-long gestatation period. They also have fertility associations, as they can breed like, um, rabbits. As burrowing animals they also have associations with the underworld and rebirth (the moon also has rebirth associations thanks to its phases, which is another hare-moon link). Possibly the triangular space formed by the ears is representative of the hare’s burrow. Yuri pointed to the hare as a symbol of protection, which is connected with taking refuge in the burrow, and maybe points to protection on the journey to the underworld. Rebirth and fertility are themselves connected (new life), and Simon made the connection between the shape of the ears and a womb. He also made an interesting connection with the shape and the three-armed version of the Bridget cross. Bridget’s festival is Imbolc, literally ‘in the belly’ or ‘in the womb’, the beginning of spring in the Celtic tradition. The three-fold symbolism may relate to the lunar aspects, and Bridget (the goddess) has associations with the number three, though I don’t know much about that side of things. In opposition to the lunar aspect of hares and the number three, Bridget is generally thought to be a spring solar goddess, and rebirth itself is also a strong solar motif. Here we get the coincidence of opposites I was banging on about just now, between sun and moon. Following that line of thought, Bridget was born to one people and married into another, thus acting as a reconciler of opposites. As well as a solar goddess/saint, Bridget is also associated with water (especially holy wells and springs I believe), so we have the opposites again. The triangle pointing upwards is the symbol for the element of fire, and with point downwards is the symbol for the element of water, and the triangle can also represent that equilibrium of balance as I’ve said. Rebirth itself is a union of opposites, death and life, descent and ascent, the subconscious and the superconscious. And the Three Hares themselves graphically show the reconciliation of unity and plurality. They sometimes appear near Green Man bosses, thus bringing together the feminine aspects of fertility with the masculine. Some also see it as a symbol of the Christian Trinity, which itself can be understood as a union of the divine as unknowable and as known, the unseen and the seen, the unmanifest and the manifest, the transcendent and the immanent. It has also been connected to the BVM as Virgin, Mother and Queen of Heaven. In China it has been given Buddhist symbolism, representing the Buddha, the Dhama and the Sangha.
Phew!
Michael
Just out of curiosity, where in Yorkshire is St Helen’s well? I’m only curious because I have a sort of personal connection to St Helen, my wife being from St Helen’s in Merseyside (it used to be in Lancashire and then they changed the boundaries).
Michael
Hi Simon,
While rooting through some journals looking for material for an exegesis I found an article aguing that Lazarus was the beloved disciple, making some arguments that I didn’t see in your article on this website. You might already be familiar with them, but just in case I have posted a comment on your article.
Best Regards,
Michael
P.S. Did you go to QuestCon, and how was it if you did?
On the Jesus is John-back-from-the-dead thing, some time ago I came across something to do with Jewish ideas on reincarnation. Unfortunately I can’t remember any details, I believe that a Jewish scholar had written a book which was traditional Jewish tales that involve reincarnation.
Anyway, some Jews apparently thought that there were different types of reincarnation or transmigration. One is what we normally think of, a person dies and their soul or what-have-you returns as a new-born baby. But another is where the soul of a spiritually powerful person, such as a prophet, becomes joined to someone still living (though without ‘possessing’ them). This might be the kind of thing Herod had in mind.
It is interesting to note that other people apparently had the same idea as Herod. In Mark 8:27-28 Jesus asks his disciples who people think he is, and they answer that some people think he is John the Baptist, others think he is Elijah, and others one of the other prophets.
Coming back to the verses re Mary and the 7 demons, I agree that the issue isn’t settled, but it probably can’t be settled on the text alone. I think Adrian’s main point is probably valid, which is that the Greek is too ambiguous to build very much on. Modern translations do attempt to express something of the ambiguity in Luke 8:2: “Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out…” (from New Revised Standard Version). It doesn’t say that Jesus cast anything out of Mary, just that 7 demons had gone from Mary. So it could mean that Mary was possessed, or it could mean that the demons went in some other way (Mary was an exorcist or something else?) As the text stands we can’t take a definitite position, we need other material besides the one verse.
With both this and the Jesus is John-back-from-the-dead, I get the feeling that the writers felt that the readers would understand what was meant. Unfortunately they didn’t think about the poor sods who would try and make sense of their words nearly 2000 years later!
Just as an aside in defense of my brethren and sistren in the church, I know of at least one academic theologian who is more than happy to consider Mary Magdalene as possibly a super-apostle. Christian theology taken as a whole is not as dogmatic as it is often made out to be. Individuals can certainly be very clear that they think their interpretation is the only correct one (a fault found in monotheists, pagans, materialists and just about everybody really), but in the history of Christian thought everything is constantly being questioned. Admittedly, this came as a huge surprise to me when I started studying the subject academically, having spent most of my adult Christian life in an ‘evangelical’ culture that doesn’t worry itself about divergent opinions except to shoot them down (which is probably why many evangelicals seem to be suspicious of academic theology – it causes too many wobbles among the faithful).
Love, peace and respect to all!
Michael
Hee hee, someone find me a conspiracy theorist, quick!
