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Having been made aware of some of your comments during the day, Andrew (Collins) has asked me to post the following clarifications:
“I have not, and will not, get drawn into any debate concerning the sale of the Green Stone and other assorted items as this might jeopardise our bid to secure their future, especially as Gaynor Sunderland and Andy Roberts have let it be known that they MIGHT consider a lower offer in order to keep the items within the questing community.
This said, I feel it necessary to make certain points clear, following various statements being made on psychicquesting.com.
The Green Stone was discovered by myself and Graham Phillips with the help of Marion and Gaynor Sunderland back in 1979. Indeed, without their help it might never have been found. It is a very, personal magical artefact that very quickly became embroiled in internal politics. If (and only if) we are successful in our bid to buy it, then I do not want this to happen again.
A small group got together by myself have secured almost enough money to match the existing bid of £7000. If we are successful (and this is a very important point) then the Green Stone will, for the first time in 20 years, be utilised again by the surviving member of the Meonia group, founded in 1979. We will make it available for the special event planned, where those who help us increase our EXISTING bid via psychicquesting.com will be allowed a one-to-one with the object and casket for attunement and photos. It will also appear in proposed future conferences and lectures put on by those most closely involved in the bid.
Paying an amount into the fund will not permit anyone to come calling when they like to borrow the Green Stone for whatever purpose they may choose. Their £50 donation is much appreciated, but it will only provide them with an exclusive ticket to the one-off special event; nothing else, other than their name on an appreciation list (if we are successful). There will be NO judicators, or committees outside of those who are putting up the bid. This is a commercial sale, not the pawning of the Crown Jewels!
We simply need your help to ensure the future of the objects, both on a materialistic and magical level. The Green Stone and its accompanying casket are very special objects, which must not be lost to the questing world. Please help me to preserve them, as this is the only chance we are going to get, I promise you. Failing to do so might well have dire consequences for the questing community.
BTW, it is important to point out that Graham Phillips is not involved in the consortium. However, he supports it, and wishes it every success.”
So I hope that sets the record straight. I hope that I haven’t misled anyone by stating that Graham was actually part of the consortium. That inaccuracy is totally down to a misinterpretation by myself.
What is clear though is that if you do want that one-on-one session with the Green Stone then I suggest that you should start donating quickly!
Thanks all,
Simon
As a former regular attendee of Earth Quest, I can certainly vouch for Andy’s enthusiasm. Would it be Andy who would ‘look after’ the items?
Andy M
The ‘Green Stone’ certainly needs to stay within the questing community and hopefully this will be a major consideration when the artifacts are sold.
The ‘Green Stone’ is an important artifact that will inspire others to pursue their own quests either through the one to one contact opportunity or through being displayed at future public events. It would be a shame to loose these items to a private collector…
Also the added information offered by Gaynor for the lesser known artifacts alone would be of prime interest to all questing folk, and I would hope this could be made available for viewing to contributors to the consortium.
The Psychic Questing “Community” should be wary as to the motives behind the leadership of the Consortium planning to bid for the Green Stone since the sad death of its former custodian, Marion Sunderland.
Since her untimely death there has ben NOTHING on either A Collin’s website or G Phillip’s site about her death. Nowhere on Andrew Collin’s site is there ANY mention of the death of the woman who was instrumental in finding the Green Stone and who played such a pivotal part in the other quests. News about Collin’s books, yes, his current projects, what he likes for dinner, and what his latest money-making venture is, but NOTHING about the death of someone who helped him in his early work in founding psychic questing and his later career. How very sad
I am extremely sceptical about Andrew Collin’s use of the stone when and if he gets his hands on them. Others in the subject have tried in vain to use the objects that he refers to in his books. I doubt very much that he will consent to the stone and associated objects being used by other people, whether or not they contributed to the Consortium. Once they are in his possession they will be his property and no doubt he will feel that he is the true and rightful owner and not let them out of his sight. If the members of the Consortium are happy in being fobbed off with a quick one-dau Andy Collin’s special in holding the stone for the first and last time, then that’s a matetr for them. But be certain that once he gains possession of it you’ll be unlikely to be invited to another hands-on ceremony and never have use of oit again.
When people talk about the objects remaining within the psychic questing community, read “Andy Collins”. He may have founded the subject and been a key player but that does not necessarily mean that he is the only player. We ALL should be included in this community.
Furthermore, since Collin’s foray into the quest for the holy grail using the demonic guidance of a former black magician (Crowley) and being used by certain unknown but very dangerous powers in that quest (a fact that Collins was all too aware about since the late Marion Sunderland actually advised him against working with the likes of the certain “Helen” back in 1979 at the onset of the Meonia quest ,who had been involved in some dark occult practices), I am VERY cautious about allowing Andy Collins taking charge of a powerful talismanic stone that could now be put to dubious and even demonic use. Of course, I do not think that he is demonic and would knowingly misuse the artifact, any more than any other object in his possession, BUT the kind of demonic guidance and dubious guides and influences that he has surrounded himself with now means that potentially and realistically he is in a position to be influenced and guided in such a manner as to be used by demonic powers and intelligences for their own ends, even if he may think that he is being positive/doing the right thing/on the side of Light/ is too strong an individual/knows what he is doing etc etc.
Please all those within the Psychic Questing Community – be aware, be very aware…
I must admit I was surprised myself to see nothing on their sites, but in fairness ACs website hasn’t been updated since last November so far as I can see, not even to mention that his book is finished and awaiting publication. GP’s website similarly hasn’t been touched since around Christmas.
Looking at their sites, I get the impression that they aren’t geared to dynamic content in the way this one is, and I don’t think either is dedicated to website maintenance in the slightest. And of course, just because you don’t put something on your website, doesn’t mean you don’t care about it.
It’s a fairly serious accusation to say someone is being guided by ‘demonic’ powers. Was Crowley demonic? It is true that he had on occasion claimed to have summoned up numerous demons, but that was pretty much par for the course for magicians and in context is not in itself necessarily an evil act (not that I’d try it myself). He may have been many things (and a paragon of virtue he wasn’t), but from what I do know I don’t think he was demonic. I think he did have a mischievous streak and enjoyed playing up to a ‘reputation’. He also seemed to enjoy subverting Christian or biblical imagery to his own magical philosophy, and didn’t get on too well with Christianity. But that doesn’t make him demonic, and I say that as a Christian myself. Good lord, I never thought I’d find myself defending Crowley!
Let’s not rush to judge (and I know, I’m as guilty as the next person).
Peace,
MichaelLOL
In my opinion one of Andy’s best books was ‘From the Ashes of Angels’, all about the Angelically inspired origins of human civilisation. He’s is a bit of a devil sometimes, and an arguementative git, but ‘Demonic’… lol Every year, even when it hasnt been financially rewarding (because of the cost of certain speakers) Andy has kept pushing the Questing Conference, to spread and encourage ‘freedom of thought’ and to encourage everyone to quest for new ‘enlightenments’… I consider him quite an asset to universal developement.
He has not updated his site since last year; – and should one make a public display of their grief anyway?
That said, and let me be the devils advocate here (maybe I’m being possessed) but the idea that the Green Stone is all ‘Light’ and niceness… is far from true.
The green stone story mentions the emerald stone that originally fell from the crown of Lucifer. The ‘Meonia Heritage’ that spoke through Graham Philips in the ‘Joanna Sessions’ kept referring to ‘Mary’ as ‘Mary Tudor’ NOT Mary Queen of Scots, Mary Tudor was ‘Bloody Mary’ who had over 300 Protestants burnt to death, and the heritage made heroes out of the Gunpowder Plotters who try to blow up king and parliament… The Meonia Heritage is largely of a ‘Pro-Catholic agenda’ and bloody ruthlessly so too.
What I’m saying is, that allthough Meonia is a fascinating topic, nothing is black and white, good and bad, and there are only various shades of Grey.
Certain aspects of ‘Joanna’s’ history lessons have since proven to be flawed, academically speaking. When the Knights Pool sword was found it was only explained as a dowsing tool, with which the Green Stone could be located…’Joanna’ said nothing at all about there being other swords, or that tthere should be a coming together of Seven.
No antagonism to Gaynor intended, but she obviously doesnt consider it a sacred or inspiring treasure to keep and hold, neither apparentally does Graham, whose taken the position of supporting Andy but not being involved. This whole stance that people are taking is very different to the awe and ‘sense of destiny’ that was portrayed in the Green Stone book… its almost like a Cloak of Apathy has fallen around the people who were involved…
…I find this whole situation very strange.
Hi,
Gaynor and I were most surprised to read the message from ‘Johnny’ on this site.
We see no reason whatosever to question Andy Collins’ desire to bid for the Questing artifacts.
The fact that there is nothing on AC’s site about Marion means absolutely nothing. Web sites fulfill many different functions and Andy’s site clearly isn’t intended for news items. The fact that Marion’s death was announced on the PQ Portal site was more than adequate, as is evidenced by the fact that we have been literally inundtated with messages, enquiries and tentative bids from all over the world. I am sure that, in his own time, Andy will probably put something considered and measured on his site regarding the matter, but that is up to him and no-one else.
As regards ‘Johnny’s’ other comments it is entirely up to Andy C, or indeed anyone else who bids succesfully on the artifacts, what they do with them and who they share them with. The terms and conditions of the Consortium have been made abundantly clear and I’m sure no-one is in any doubt as to what access/use they will get.
‘Johnny’ also makes the assumption that Andy C and the Consortium are certain to obtain the items. This is not necessarily the case. The items will go, if at all possible, to people within the Questing community and preferably to Andy and the Consortium. However, there is no getting away from the stark fact that they are being sold to raise a ‘reasonable’ amount of money for Gaynor. If ‘reasonable’ isn’t achieved by the Consortium then the items will go elsewhere. I don’t, as yet, notice a bid from ‘Johnny’!
Gaynor has nothing but the highest regard for Andy, and his motivations. Gaynor knew him and worked with him for many years and has no doubts as to his integrity. For ‘Johnny’ (and why the need to hide behind annonymity?) to raise this sort of paranoid tittle-tattle as this time is both disrespectful to Marion’s memory and to the subject of Psyhic Questing itself. I would suggest that ‘Johnny’ is simply motivated by bitterness and sour grapes for something he desperately wants but cannot have and
I trust this is the last we will hear of such nonsense.Happy Trails
Andy[/i]
I am hesitant to post on such a hot topic as a newby, but I have been a fan of psychic questing for a long time and feel shocked by the venom and feel I have to jump in. Also surprised at the ignorance from ‘Johnny’.
Where to start? Crowley: Crowley was called the ‘Wickedest Man in the World’ by a right-wing British scandal sheet in the 1930s. Funny time to call someone the ‘wickedest man in the world’, with Hitler and Stalin on the march! Crowley was someone who was moving things along, a bright flash trying to break through the stiffling fog of hypocracy of Christian society. He tried to break the taboos – with shock and humour. He was not a devil worshiper, he despised ‘black magicians’ (see magic in theory and practice). He studied Yoga, mysticism and other philosophies, especially Buddhism, and experimented with changing consciousness using psychoactive substances and sex. Is sex still a BAD Thing to some 21st century psychic questers?Andrew Collins and Graham knew Marion and Gaynor for years. Their websites are not the places to discuss Marion. That would be tacky,vulgar and self indulgent – Surely we must respect that thier private thoughts are between them and Gaynor and her family. How can ‘johnny’ make such a dreadful remark? He talks as if he knew Marion. Did he? Where do his presumptions, spite and bitterness come from? Hope future postings will be
I would like to put across my view on this debate if I may.I have been interested in the Green Stone and its history for some time, I have often looked at this site amongst others, although have never felt compelled to post until now. Personally, I feel that some viable and important criticism has been made – simply to dismiss this is surely not a good way to debate the issue.
It has been alleged that Crowley was demonic. Whilst we cannot be sure of his motives or actions at any given time, we should surely question what motive he had in guiding Andrew Collins to the proposed ‘holy grail’.
We should surely question (at the very least) whether anyone who has claimed to be led by the spirit of such a man (as Mr Collins has) would really be a good candidate to own such an incredible spiritual relic. I would certainly question his motives. However, from reading other posts on this site, it seems as though some people here have already almost decided that Mr Collins should be the owner, and it seems that anyone who questions this is instantly reprimanded. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that this forum is mainly one for friends and supporters of Mr Collins and therefore contributes very little to the debate about who is really worthy of having such a relic. Please be aware that I am personally not interested in owning it and so have no ulterior motive here – but I am concerned about the nature and tone of some of the posts here and would like to think that it is indeed an equal playing field. Last but not least, having been following the history of this subject for so long, I would greatly like to see this go to someone who will use it for good.DARE I say it..? Better the DEVIL you know..! LOL
)These artefacts if they still possess any powerful function will find their own destiny, and only end up with their next rightful guardian/s. Whom ever they are sold to it will be the right decision.
I’m sure they will in time be passed on again and again, lost and re-found whilst they have work to be done…
It’s not for us to say who deserves or has any right to them it is a free for all bid. (Or free for all quest if they end up getting burried!)
Andy C is the only known name we know of to be in a position to bid on these items, and therefore he is getting the support. There will be immense pressure on him if he is successful and will probably be hounded as long as he has these items.
I’m sure he could have made a private bid if he wanted to, as he knows Gaynor and family well. By making his bid public this to me shows he wants the artefacts kept for positive questing use and will surly make them accessible for others to wonder upon, even if it is only through being showcased at public events.
Hi Holly,
I’m glad that you decided to drop by and post your views the broader the spectrum of views on any topic the better. I hope that as you read through the forums you will see that nothing has been censored at all and healthy debate is actively promoted.
So to tackle a few of the points you raise:
1. “This forum is mainly one for friends and supporters of Mr Collins”. I’m not sure how true this is although it is a criticism that has been raised before. Certainly this site was designed to represent the Questing community in its widest sense. Very few of the posts talk about Andrew or his work directly – most relate to observations/questions of the individual posters.
In the current debate about the Green Stone he has come back into the limelight but in fairness to the man I was the one who introduced him to the debate. Since then we have had a rather scathing attack from johnny that made some highly dubious criticisms of a very personal nature and people have reacted to these with the appropriate distaste.
Of the frequent posters, Yuri is perhaps the only one who is a “friend” of Andrew’s but I believe that even he has a fairly balanced view of Andrew and is certainly not putting him up on some pedastal. However, the fact that so many of the posters do class themselves (at least on this occasion) as supporters of Andrew shows that he is held in high regard within the community. I think everyone would agree that, primarily through the annual QuestCons, he is the person who has put the most effort into establishing a Psychic Questing community in the first place. So such a bias is only to be expected. I believe you would find that if somebody attacked, say, Graham Phillips, Alex Langstone or any other researcher who is obviously only doing their best to bring their findings to the wider world, there would be an equally vociferous reaction.
2. “Some viable and important criticism has been made – simply to dismiss this is surely not a good way to debate the issue.” I would argue that most of johnny’s criticisms were neither viable nor important but petulant and needlessly insulting. Surely his position is completely undermined when he appears to speak on behalf of Gaynor (and makes some very nasty insinuations about her mother’s untimely death) and then Gaynor’s own husband refutes this and smacks him down. I come back to the point I made above, healthy criticism is welcomed on this site, personal insults with no substance to them are not.
3. “debate about who is really worthy of having such a relic”. This is a totally fair point albeit reasonably academic as the relic is being sold by private auction. I have no problem if folk want to argue about who, in an ideal world should be the keeper of the Stone. Again I would be saddened to see it descend to a level of personal attacks (which is the danger when you start comparing “worthiness”).
In the specific instance that has been raised – that Andrew is unworthy because he has used the spirit of Aleister Crowley – I again think this is a totally fair point for discussion and although Yuri used a light-hearted style to do so I think he tackled this issue head-on and didn’t dismiss it lightly.
In this instance I would personally disagree with several of the other posters in that I believe Crowley was a thoroughly bad egg when on the planet and I would be highly suspicious of any dealings with him in the spirit world. But I equally believe that we can’t totally block out our shadow side so if the crowley guide was Andrew’s way of coming to terms with his own shadow then maybe that’s ok.
I guess the question I would ask is who would you consider more worthy and why?
So in summary this website is simply a mirror of the views of those who post here. If you want different views or material then you have done exactly the right thing by starting the counter-argument yourself! Let’s hear some more.
- Simon
And here is Andrew’s own reply:
“My position regarding the imminent sale of the Green Stone is clear, and I will not repeat it.
As regards the assertion that I have made no mention of Marion’s sad demise on my site, the answer is simple. I learnt about the sale of the Green Stone just four days after her funeral, before I had a chance to do anything on the website, which is only updated periodically, due to heavy work load. Since then my usual hectic schedule and book deadlines have been strained to the limit by this unpredicted twist of affairs. So I have decided not to say anything at all until after the sale, and then I will write up the whole matter in one go.
I am, of course, very saddened by Marion’s death, even though we had not spoken for over 20 years. I will deal with it in my own way in my own time.
On the subject of the future of the Green Stone, this is outlined in my previous statement. This object is not a toy to play with, it is a symbol of a series of events which Graham Phillips and I unwittingly initiated back in 1979. It was given to Marion as custodian, because at the time our own lives were less than settled. She was handed the casket much later, simply because she was touring the world still promoting the Green Stone story with the object itself, and so it was better that the two items remained together. Graham and I were by now onto other things, and so had no qualms about this taking place.
If, and only if, myself and my close friends are successful in the bid to purchase the Green Stone, then it will appear at future events. Yes, it will be used magically, but only with the express permission of all the members of the inner core, whose names will be made available in due course. They are perhaps wiser than me, and will not allow it to be used for any old action, I assure you.
On the subject of me being misled in the past by psychic guides such as ‘Aleister Crowley’, this is a matter of debate. Just because a society might have classed a person ‘evil’ by its own reckoning in an era barely free of Puritanism, does not condemn a soul to eternal damnation, whatever you might think of the way a person lived their life.
Personally, I found him quite a spunky guide to deal with, better than your usual ‘Silver Feather’ or ‘Grey Cloud’ Indian guides so stereotypical of the spiritualist movement. Guides should be provocative, stimulating and believable.
That Marion warned me back in 1979 against a psychic woman named Helen who also had Crowley as a spirit guide tells you more about people’s intrigues and prejudices than it does true psychic information. This said, if I had not taken notice of what Marion had to say at the time, then the Green Stone story would never have occurred, an eerie thought, really.
On the other hand, if it is lost to whoever, then this truly will be a disaster, of this I am certain.
So please ignore any swipes at me, and think of the stone itself, and how you can play some role in saving it from probable oblivion. Surely this should be everyone’s concern at the moment.
Happy questing,
Andrew Collins”
Quote:I found him quite a spunky guide to deal withLol, I’m sure Crowley would love that description
I guess I am one of the ones guilty of being Adrew’s friend but for what its worth, I am also my own person, have often disagreed with Andy (we even fell out for a number of years) but now we can still share a pint and a laugh… So I would just say that people can be ‘pro-supportive’ of a person without being a member of a clicky group that others cant become involved in.
When I first met Andy and his ‘then’ Earthquest group in 1991, they appeared to me to be a ‘clicky’ tightly knitted group… but thats just how it appeared to me at the time.
When I first attended a Tai Chi class it seemed that the teacher had his ‘favourite’ students…. but it aint really that way, really this is just an perception based on insecurity of being in a an invironment for the first time, before you have got to ‘know’ any body.
I hope Holly and other newbies dont stay ‘newbies’ but hang around and become part of the crowd.
When I became aware of psychicquesting.com I thought that Simon had started a great thing. There is too much perception of ‘Questing’ having an ‘inner core’ of people, a clicky group that can only be approached at the Questing Conference; it aint really that way but how else are we all meant to interact?
Like Simon said (‘Simon says’ lol) The more debate the better. I’m trying to do my bit, its easy for me as I am self employed and work from home so I’m online quite a lot… that doesnt mean I’m a clicky member of psychicquesting.com, just means that the devil is finding work for my idle hands… but most of all I just enjoy these topics and debates
My own position on the Green Stone is that I dont actually believe its a great profound thing of magical power; I believe its a simple stone (special) but simple. But what it is, is a unique part of Questing history. Its the leading artifact from the first questing book, it represents the adventures of 1979 and its story kick started a new wave of esoteric interest, psychic research and has helped to make ‘alternative research’ mainstream. The Questing Conference and this forum probably wouldnt exist if the events in Flint, in 79′ hadnt of happened….. Throw a stone into a pond, create ripples.
It would be a real shame if it were just hidden away forever in a private collection, but simply by owning a thing doesnt mean that you’ll ‘know’ how to use it (for good or ill) or that you even have a ‘psyche’ that can tune into it…. money just doesnt buy those abilities…. they only come together by chance.
tI am glad that the debate over the future of the Green Stone has hotted up. Simon, the moderator, has been most fair and objective in his dealings and allowed reasonable and necessary freedom of debate without interfrence. Which is a bit more than ‘Meugher’ who seems to think he has some right to censor others thoughts and opinions. So you may be married to a lady who was closely involved in the story but that doesn’t make you either an arbritator or wise counsel. And as for being allegedly “motivated by sour grapes and bitterness” since when did you do become an expert on long-distance psychotherapy? ‘Meugher’s agressive iconaclastic secularism seems that he needs to fill his existenalist void by downgrading others experiences and personal theories that suggest an otherworldly origin. As an individual who likes to parade himself in the world of paranormal publishing and web blogs spitting out his own brand of personal invective and churlish rantings against those whom he thinks he knows better, it’s a bit rich coming from ‘Meugher’. So don’t lecture me on my right to free opinion and thought.
Yuri’s comments seem very fair and I agree that the history of Meonia is almost certainly not all “love and light”. Far from it. Like any sacred object involved in a conflict of competiting ideologies it probably served both masters of light and dark, and often those in the grey (such is the manner of human nature).
I agree too with Yuri that theer has descended upon this object a bizarre “cloak of apathy” from those originally involved. No doubt people have more material concerns after those events have long passed.
To respond to ‘Meugher’, just because he may be a pal of Andrew Collins doesn’t mean to say that he is right. It seems like, if his posting is anything to go by, that it’s already been decided and Mr Collins is regarded as the main man for guardianship?
I am fully aware that websites serve many functions but let’s be honest here I was just making an observation that it would it would have been appropriate to at least publicly recognise her death, being as she was such an important individual in the whole affair and at the very least a close personal friend at one time. That is all the point I was making. I do not see how it could be construed as “tacky” or “vulgar”, how incredulous, what do you think the public memorium columns in newspapers are for? But this is a sensitive and not not entirely relevent issue so I’m dropping it.
I would like to say that Andrew Collinsmay or may not be a nice man, who loves sweet little children and little kittens, but the point I was trying to amke ( and which has eluded some) is that his meddling with certain spiritual powers is both highly irresponsible and dangerous. Don’t some of you there get it??? Just because Joe Bloggs is a nice man or woman does not stop them from being used by malevolent energies, whatever Joe Bloggs nature and intentions. Too call this “paranoid tittle-tattle” is more an indication of the writer’s own barely disguised ego and ignorance than an indication of my own paranoia. For your information ‘Meugher’ Imy job is with an intrenational hi-tech company which enatils me travelling around the country and meeting all kinds of customers. I would not be in a position to kep my job for long if I was paranoid or barking mad. I do not use drugs, not even for :recreational” purposes or drink, so my mind is not addled. I have spent many years both in the UK and abroad travelling and meeting spiritual masters, yogis, adepts and religious people to study and learn. I still ave a long, long way to go before even touching on enlightenment but I have learnt much and if you can do me a favour then it is this: I am merely warning of the dangers of individuals who meddle and call upon spiritual powers without thought to the consequences and nature of what they do. I do not necessarily accept that what Collins worked with was the spirit of Crowley, or anyone for that matter. That is perhaps irrelevent. What he did was to work with something that took on the appearance of Crowley and used his own ego, vanity and lust for knowledge or gain to lead him to certain goals, to fed off him and vicer versa. We do not know if this energy is now partly or fully submerged within his consciousness. He was warnd about this by Marion as far back as 1979 yet he proceeded with it in later years. AllI ask from the men and women of the psychic questing community is to be wary of the kind of powers that may now be vying for control of this sacred artifact. Some of you accept the reality of psychic questing and psychic powers and energies and apports and such like, but few of you seem to be ready to recognise, let alone accept or prepared to deal with, the actualite of the spiritual realms that these emanate from. We are dealing with real spiritual dimensions and immense forces, not all of which are predisposed to the spiritual welfare of man.
The Green Stone itself is one such example of a an object that due to its spiritual power is a crosroads where such spiritual powers confron one another. Human dupes, willing or unwilling, are used by the forces of Light and Dark, and humans often tend to operate in the grey.
It would be irresponsible for the Green Stone to be delegated to an individual who has willingly been involved with seemingly darker forces. Andrew Collins may have been working in the Light many years ago at the time he was working with the Sunderlands, but his more recent forays into the underworld leave serious misgivings to his current integrity and the saftey of the Green Stone.
I have no personal involvement or investment in the either the Green Stone nor of anyone esle involved. I do not wish to own the Green Stone(besides because of my financial commitments I do not have those kinds of funds readily available), and I wish the objects to be accessible to all in the “questing community”. Personally iIwould prefer Simon or the moderators of this website to have possession. But we must leave the decision solely to its current custodian who no doubt has enough on her mind at this moment. If she wishes it to go to anyone – or to be reburied at a secret location – then let her be guided by Spirit.
John
Hello!
I am totally new to this site so what I am posting is a mostly intuitive response based on what I have read on Andrew C’s posting for the Green Stone Fund. I have not read his books or followed his quest so I freely admit that I don’t have a history of this or of Mr. Collins.
He says it would be disastrous if this stone disappeared from the questing community. Why? Isn’t that in the hands of Spirit, and if this ended up in the hands of a private collector (good, bad or neutral), wouldn’t that then become simply the next part of the quest involving the history of this stone?
Having said that, if individuals feel that their part in this is to contribute to the Consortium to keep this artefact in the “community” then that is what they should do. But who is this “community” exactly?
However, I personally find it a little phoney to treat this as if it’s some kind of a Green Stone time-share or something, with everyone having the equal right to come to the events above a certain contribution, on a strictly limited basis, with Mr. Collins and others retaining control. Some sort of limited spiritual “democracy” perhaps?
It does smack of vested interests.
I don’t personally feel democracy has much to do with the world of questing, but if people feel strongly about “democracy” and keeping the stone in the community, then perhaps the Green Stone Fund should be a real charity to raise funds to then have the Stone kept safely in a British Museum? Then anyone could come (good or ill) to commune with this artefact, and you’d have a level playing field. You’d then also of course have attempts to steal the stone and so it would go!!!
I agree with Johnny who has raised concerns about responsibility when dealing with spiritual guides and realms. I know little of Crowley, but a friend of mine who had studied his books, and knows more of magic than I, thought that the problem with Crowley was not so much his practices or intentions, but that he lead others into his practices where, unlike him, they did not have the strength or were not ready to deal with the consequences of these practices or other realms. Responsibility it important, and surely valid to question, when it comes to paying money into a Consortium where certain individuals will end up controlling the stone. I mean if Mr. Collins was raising the money all by himself then that’s up to him.
Spirit will decide, and if it goes to the Consortium, so be it. I’d prefer to see it in a Good British Museum under lock and key!!
But then, I’m a newbie!
MariaLouise
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