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This is in relation to Yuri’s queries about the topic “clusters” that, while looking as if they might develop into something interesting, hadn’t yet joined up with the rest of the core Icon Trail.
Taking the Grail first of all.
Richard Barber’s recent Grail book, while scholarly, was a bit of a killjoy when it came to possible interpretations of the Grail stories. So to try and re-ignite some nice speculative Grail theories whilst at the same time heeding his admonitions about straying from the original text of Chretien de Troyes and respecting the chronology of the manuscripts we have, I offer the following fragmentary thoughts:
1. The Fisher King. Very odd character, doesn’t appear to have any parallels in other mythology/literature (contrary views do exist which say that he is a variation of Bran the Blessed out of Celtic mythology but (1) the parallels don’t look convincing; and (2) as we’ve already seen Chrétien predates the oldest *written* accounts of the Celtic myths). The Fisher King is wounded.
2. When Perceval is at dinner with the fisher king the question he is supposed to ask is: “Whom does the Grail serve?” – i.e. “Who is the Fisher King”. (Note: not “what is the grail” or “what is being served” but “Who is served by the grail”.)
3. Perceval fails to ask the question and when he wakes up the next morning the Fisher King has disappeared and he has failed a test.
4. Barber says that he cannot find another story where a test is failed because a question hasn’t been asked – and that may be true. But the key point is in fact Perceval’s inability to recognise/identify the Fisher King. The question is simply the means to do this and the tragic flaw in Perceval (a motif repeated a number of times) is that he follows instructions literally without any inner understanding of the principles they embody. He is the ultimate naif.
5. However this theme struck me as familiar. And I realised that what was ticking the back of my mind were the Gospel stories of Jesus after he’d been resurrected. Here we have a number of times where he appears to disciples and they don’t recognise him until they share supper. His wound(s) figure prominently in these accounts as well. Ultimately the disciples recognise him but Perceval doesn’t.
6. If the Fisher King is really a disguised Jesus (and the theme of fishing and Jesus is clearly fundamental to all the Gospels) then this ties in completely with the idea of the Holy Grail being some kind of Eucharistic symbol – as that’s what the breaking of the bread symbolises too.
7. This still, however, does not seem to be orthodox Catholicism. Something fishy(!) is going on and the next stage is to try and spot exactly what. Catharism is a likely contender due to its proximity in time. But the theme of Divine (/Primal/Ur-) Light is very strong in Gnostic works. As one example, modern gnostic Stephan Hoeller has recently given a lecture entitled “The Eucharist: Eating the Divine Light”. It would be interesting to see if de Troyes’ patron Philip, Count of Flanders could be linked to some heterodox beliefs.
8. Although more modern, something of this “offbeat” Christianity appears to have also been transmitted through the Tarot cards whose suits of Cups, Swords, Wands and Coins have been equated with the four Hallows of the Grail Legend: the Cup, the Sword, the Lance and the Dish. The Ace of Cups, especially in the Rider-Waite conception, is very much a depiction of some kind of Eucharist.
9. In Joa Bolenda’s vision of the Holy Grail (OK I admit we have now clearly left Barberland) (see the link on this site: [url:3mpj5gis]http://www.psychicquesting.com/article-1-flat-0-.html-1[/url] ) several things strike me as either bold statements or statements which did not follow the prevailing thought of the time. These are:
- King Arthur was mentally ill
- although embellished by later legend, Glastonbury *was* the site of the early action
- to find the chalice (the grail?) you first need to find the sword
- one should also seek out a relevant hill (presumably in or near Glastonbury) and purify it
- the theme of primal light again appearsClearly much of this – in the style of presentation, in the required actions, in the potential for red herrings – is very familiar to the psychic quester.
Umm – and that’s pretty much where I’m up to with that particular set of connections. Nothing radically new but some points that certainly warrant further investigation.
Simon
OK..
It’s Equinox and you have hit on a whole massive can of worms.
The Grail is just one of those topics that gets everyones back up… Andy and I had many hot-headed discussions about all this… I dont believe in Graham Philips’s ‘Marian Chalice’ and Andy did… so I am used to these arguements.
Lets try and keep things simple.
The Grail starts with Chretien de Troyes ‘Le conte du Graal’ and in many ways it finishes there. You cannot with any authority say that the Grail was a CUP, a STONE, a BLOODLINE, or any other of these modern concepts, because Chretien never described it as such… he specifically calls it a BOWL.
Yes, the whole Perceval story is about Perceval ‘learning’ his destiny, and to do so, ‘asking all those questions’. But Chretien makes no inuendo that the Fisherking is Christ or even christlike, and later in the book, Perceval comes across another king who explains everything to him… I have the book here and so can quote what is said,
(Of the Graal) “The man who is served from it was my brother. My sister and his was your mother. And as for that rich Fisher King, he is I believe, the son of this king who has himself served from the bowl. Do not imagine that it holds pike, lamprey, or salmon. With a single host carried to him in the bowl, we know, he sustains and nourishes his life. Such a holy object is the bowl, and so pure in spirit is he himself that his life requires no further nourishment than the host that comes in the bowl. For fifteen years now he has been served in this manner, never leaving the room where you saw the bowl enter…..”
The curious and frustrating thing is that Chretien never finished writing his Graal story (Though he does claim that it isnt an invention and that he is writing from a much older source)
Because it was unfinished this allowed others like Wolfram von Eshenbach to claim they knew the whole story… and he calls it a Stone… but no one else has Chretien’s authority… So you can only ever say with safety, that it was a sacred Bowl.
From the above quote, it is understood that Perceval was related to the Fisher King (who appears to be Perceval’s uncle) If we accept Perceval being of Arthur’s time then the Fisher King has to be of the 5th cent… cant possibly be Jesus… but there does seem to be the hint of some Fisher King bloodline that Perceval was born into
I think it was Rober de Boron who claimed that the Fisher King bloodline was descended from Joseph of Arimathea, and that the Grail was a Cup but Chretien never mentions any of this.
Looking to the Welsh for an earlier Celtic origin we get the story of Peredur who sees a ‘Graal-type-procession’ but the Bowl is replaced by a Large platter with a head swimming in blood.
As for the Four Grail Hallows,
Jesus gives us the Lance that pierced his side, and the Cup of the last supper; but it is John the Baptist who gives us the Sword that decapitated his head (Sir Gawain was on quest to find this sacred item) and the Platter/Dish upon which his head was given to Salome.Jesus is Midwinter, the Baptist is midsummer; they are the ‘Two pillars of the temple’… Winter and Summer Solstice holding up the heavenly sphere. If you enter the temple between the two pillars you have to be entering along the line of the Spring/Autumn equinox
and that is where we are at. Autumn Equinox, time to enter the Temple.
Now that is an amazing picture
who’s the artist?Interesting idea about the temple (Jesus and John as soltices, equinoxes as the doorways). I checked the date/time for the equinox and this year it’s 22 Sep (with 22:22 GMT being the precise time, that’s 23:22 BST). Next year it’s 23 Sep.
Date/Time courtesy of:
[url:12hom0uf]http://www.religioustolerance.org/fall_equinox.htm#da[/url]I’ve not seen that particular association with the Tarot suits before.
Vyxen, I think that’s Yuri’s very own work – you can see his signature on the base of the altar. I’m sure I saw it on his website; lots of other good and interesting stuff there.
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