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Hello everyone, I’m interested in finding out more about Meonia.
Hello there,
Don’t be put off by the slowness of people’s response, as people are likely busy with the business of the season. I know I am. I’m not likely to post again this side of the new year.
I’ll be writing an article on Meonia myself at some point next year, when the rest of life is less busy. Anything in particular that interests you about the Meonia ‘mythos’?
Other than that, please share a little about yourself.
Michael
What’s the connection beween Meonia and the Maeoniae of Ancient Greece? According to this article [url:1augnpkk]http://www.angelfire.com/planet/maeoniae[/url] the Maeoniae originated in Lydia.
Hi ObYsnat,
I’m not sure about the Maeoniae connection but with regards “Meonia” I believe the other theories were that it could be (a) an anagram, (b) a magic power word (both of these are expanded here: [url:372xy0ze]http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/news/Arch.htm[/url] in an article by Andrew Collins citing Kenneth Grant’s “Ninth Arch”). I also seem to recall (although, to my shame, I don’t have the Seventh Sword immediately to hand
) that there was a theory that the secret society of Catholics might have been called Meonia. Maybe somebody else can confirm or deny…Cheers,
Simon
When I finish my article I’ll be touching on the Lydian Maeonians. They are mentioned in Herodotus and Homer’s Illiad.
Just to pick up on the Catholic movement, I can’t confirm Simon’s statement but there was an English Jesuit priest called Robert Southwell who was executed at Tyburn in England 1595. While in prison he wrote a number of collections of spiritual poetry (published after his death), one of which was entitled Maeoniae, dealing with the nativity and life on earth of Christ.
Interestingly he was a habitual visitor at the home of Richard Bellamy, who was himself under suspicion because of his connection to Jeremy Bellamy, an accomplice in the Babbington Plot involving Mary Queen of Scots. When Richard’s daughter Anne was arrested, she revealed Southwell’s movements and he was arrested, tortured and eventually executed. Maybe significant given the associations of Meonia with the Catholic Gunpowder Plot, and possibly earlier with Mary Queen of Scots.
Perhaps that should be filed under Loose Ends, if anyone wants to look into it – can’t recall if its mentioned in the Meonia literature.
Michael
It seems a pretty barbaric sort of practice – the Lydian one, that is – and I wonder why an Elizabethan society would want to name themselves after it.
My apologies ObYsnat, I think you’ve lost me -easily done, I know. What are the barbaric practices of the Lydian’s that you’re referring to?
Michael
Here’s the link I posted earlier: [url:2np7ze5u]http://www.angelfire.com/planet/maeoniae[/url]
Pretty barbaric, I think you’ll agree!
Ah, I missed the link – I was in a hurry at the time (Christmas Eve an’ all that). Yup, I think that counts as pretty nasty stuff. But I think it’s important to note that the unfortunate Maeoniae temple prostitutes were named after the ancient name of Lydia – Maeonia. So if a group chose to use the name Meonia it probably wasn’t in reference to the prostitutes – it may not have been referring to ancient Lydia either.
Michael
Quote:When I finish my article I’ll be touching on the Lydian Maeonians.Hi Michael,
I was really looking forward to seeing how you were going to weave the amputee Lydian Maeonians into your article; I’m gutted now
Seriously though, do Herodotus and Homer mention them in terms of being amputees (as this seems debatable at best)?
Happy New Year!
- Simon
And a Happy New Year to you too! And everyone else!
I might mention them yet, they were new to me and it is an interesting tidbit. To answer your question, I don’t recall seeing any mention of the amputees in Herodotus or Homer. Instead there are scattered references in Homer to a place called Maeonia and its people (the Maeonians), and Herodotus reports that it was the Lydians who were once called Maeonians until they named themselves after Lydus son of Atys (see Histories 7.74 for example).
I have read somewhere that Pliny the Elder also wrote about the Maeonians, specifically about a city called Maeonia on the Hermus river in Turkey. However, my resources have so far been unable to confirm this. If anyone can shed light on this it would be useful.
Inspired by my own earlier post (that’s sad isn’t it) I did a little more digging about Robert Southwell and have come up with some interesting connections. I’ll be putting it into my article – no E.T.A. on it, but it’s been mostly written for a while and just needs serious editing.
Michael
In Grahan Phillips’s fairly recent book about Merlin, he has a chapter called “Meonia” but strangely he does not mention that word anywhere else in the text. I went onto his MSN group some time ago and asked why this was the case, but he didn’t allow my message to be posted. I also pointed out the inherent unlikelihood of a group of Elizabethan Catholics allying themselves with the Rosicrucians, a German Protestant movement.
Perhaps, after all, there was something else that bound these people together. The difference in spelling between Meonia and Maeonia is a red herring, because “ae” and “e” were used interchangeably in Classical writings. It seems inconceivable that these educated intellectuals, when choosing a name, would have been unaware of the usage of the term in ancient times.
Lydia, i.e. Maeonia, was famous for its debauched sexual practices, of which the amputee prostitutes are the most notorious example. It also had a bit of a reputation for challenging the gods, and one of its early kings, Tantalus, passed into myth for this very reason. Its last king, Croesus, was similarly ill-fated.
Is it conceivable that this Elizabethan secret society was a sort of early, and rather more serious, version of the Hellfire Club?
Hmm, interesting idea. Agree with you on the spelling issue, but did the Lydians really have that reputation? I don’t know much about the Lydians and nothing about what people in the 16th century thought about them. Can you give me any references?
Also, there are other sources for the name Meonia, but you’ll have to wait for that one.
Cheers,
Michael
Pindar, Herodotus, Strabo, Pausanias, and many others all mention the various excesses of the Lydians, and the name seems to have become almost a by-word for such activities. They were also notoriously wealthy and decadent, and the phrase “rich as Croesus” still survives today.
I’ve just found a quote, Herodotus 1.94:
“Now the Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the Hellenes, with the exception that they prostitute their female children; and they were the first of men, so far as we know, who struck and used coin of gold or silver; and also they were the first retail-traders. And the Lydians themselves say that the games which are now in use among them and among the Hellenes were also their invention.”
Thanks ObYsnat, interesting to know. I quite like your ‘Hellfire Club’ theory, but it doesn’t sit well with an Elizabethan group that seems to have been very much involved with the efforts of the English Catholics to restore Catholicism (unless you take a staunch Protestant view of Catholics as licentious hypocrites), or with the general tone of the Heritage material. Maybe a spot of tongue in cheek, or there’s an alternative reference for the name.
I didn’t have time to comment on the Graham Phillips thing. I’ve not read his Merlin book, but what you say sounds odd. In a recent interview with Whitley Strieber he mentioned an ‘Order of Meonia’ in passing. What is the Meonia chapter about? Perhaps there is some sort of coded information in there, which could be why he hasn’t published your question – he wants you to work it out for yourself (or he’s ignoring his forum moderating duties – how active is it?).
Michael
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