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OK I’ll start the ball rolling in the new section
What do think regarding the above, Ghosts and Site Guardian (Genius Loci)
Is a Genius Loci and a ghosts the same thing?
That is, has the energy of a ‘dead person’ transformed into something inherently present, and eternally link to a site. Or is a GL a completely separate thing?Is it also fair to call Genius Loci a ‘Site Guardian’?
What’d you guys think?
Andy
I tend to view them as seperate things.
a Ghost, (in the traditional sense of a ‘dead person’), I think, like in life, can move from one place to another… and is a willing guide or guardian of a place or legacy.
A Genius Loci, or ‘Spirit of a Place’, to me, like Gaia being the spirit of the planet earth; – a Genius Loci is it’s own sentient being and was never a ‘living human being’.
Just today, I was talking to a friend who has always felt a strong emotional pull towards Stonehenge. I myself feel the same magnetic obsessive pull towards Glastonbury Tor… simply the ‘Spirit of the Place’ calls one’s inner spirit… love of land itself rather than the ghost of a living person.
A Site Guardian could be a ‘form’ created by the Genius Loci or the spirit of a dead person who in life, loved this place dearly, and still cares for it; so it could be either ?
Anyway, that’s kind of how I see things.
Interesting question. My family has had a few ghostly experiences in which the ghost is easily identifiable as a deceased family member (or something posing as a deceased family member) , but I think that ‘ghost’ can often become something of a catch-all term for any sort of ‘presence’ that someone becomes aware of. I guess that is because most people don’t have the concept of the spirit-of-a-place, so any experience is fit into the category that they do possess.
As an example, I strongly suspect that the story of a ‘white lady’ on the lake where I live does not relate to the ghost of a lady who had a boating accident while eloping (as the story goes, though there is no evidence for it), but the genius loci. I’ve not managed to make contact though, so it is just a theory.
I tend to agree with Yuri that a GL is not usually human, but I suppose it’s possible that some part of a deceased person may bed-down at a site and become the GL or site-guardian, or perhaps become fused with the existing genius loci.
From what I’ve read, some guardians appear to have been especially created to serve a specific purpose, possibly by living human beings. If that is so then GL and site-guardian are not synonymous. I don’t really know, I just don’t have the experience, but I imagine that there is no hard-and-fast rule at work.
Michael
I certainly agree with Michael’s comment about ‘ghosts’ being a catch all term, and it’s not one that I personally use that much. I tend to refer to such things as presences, as it’s a much more open and neutral term.
I also agree that ‘White Ladies’, Hooded Monks, Black Dogs etc, are not ghosts. I tend to think of them as manifestations of energies inherently found at certain localities. Genius Loci quite possibly? I recently wrote an article for my IoPR site suggesting that Genius Loci’s can manifest as a ‘site guardian’ IF the site has been disturbed in some way (especially if it’s ritualistic) But certainly concede that this may not be the case. I certainly agree that a ‘site guardian’ can be created, but its it the creation of something new, not previously found at a site, or the manipulation of the inherent energies, thus ‘remodelling’ the existing presence?
Andy
Quote:but its it the creation of something new, not previously found at a site, or the manipulation of the inherent energies, thus ‘remodelling’ the existing presence?An interesting idea.
I also think that spirit without physical form, will adapt itself to ‘appear’ in a way that is suitable for the given situation… so whereas a Catholic would be conviunced that they’d seen the Virgin Mary, a British pagan might say they had seen Bride, or a quester, Elen; probably the White Lady is all these things… conjuring up the form of Galadriel/Titania that we’ll relate to.
I do belief that the spirit world mirrors our minds, and will form itself towards our thoughts, to communicate with us,. As if ‘spirit’ were trying to speak ‘our’ language.
If you had no physical body and you wanted to form a body to appear to someone, and thus you could shape into any form you like, what shape would you form into?
… I’d probably be some darkly clad medieval type
Quote:what shape would you form into?Oh, I dread to think!!
Been accused of all sorts over the years.
But, as it’s my main area of esoteric study, probably an Enochain entity.Either that or John Dee himself
Andy
Hi Andy
I dare say it would be Enochian for sure, knowing you the way I do.
I hope you are well and your good lady is looking after you (give her mine and Stacey’s regards).
Many of my views on subjects regarding ghosts/guardians and the like have changed drastically since we last met. I do however agree with you that some site guardians can be energies which have been changed due to outside interference.
Regards
Stuart
For me Genius Loci is an overwhelming sensation of ‘oneness’at special places that have absorbed the energies of the people who have worshipped/loved/ died etc at that spot over many hundreds if not thousands of years.eg. churches or standing stones. This place must have already exuded a special ‘earth spirit’, which is why the ancestors were drawn there originally.However i have been told that if you are not a ‘sensitive’ you could be in the most haunted spot in the world and be oblivious to anything. Thankfully i do not fall into that category!!!
Andy_M wrote:OK I’ll start the ball rolling in the new section
What do think regarding the above, Ghosts and Site Guardian (Genius Loci)
Is a Genius Loci and a ghosts the same thing?
That is, has the energy of a ‘dead person’ transformed into something inherently present, and eternally link to a site. Or is a GL a completely separate thing?Is it also fair to call Genius Loci a ‘Site Guardian’?
What’d you guys think?
Andy
I reckon the genius loci is, as some others have mentioned, the spirit of the place. Which is not usually the ghost of a previously living person. To me it’s more like how we may perceive a place, on some ‘other’ level than just the physical, maybe giving that perception a form and even a ‘character’? I think it exists independant of ourselves, but we *see* or recognise it and interpret it in various ways.
Ghosts… I’m even less sure about!
Could be the often-accepted idea of spirits/souls of the dead, awaiting that ‘next step’ in the transition between this life and whatever is next. Could be remnants of energy from events that occured in the past (‘stone tape’ theory?)…Cheers
DaveI tend to agree with Yuri on this one especially following a personal encounter with what we firmly believe was a site guardian .
Some years back my wife and I were conducting a sword consecration ritual at the hill fort on little Solbury Hill outside Bath ,we will skip over how we came to be there and the fiasco at midnight in the pouring rain at West kennet long barrow and Silbury hill two weeks before suffice to say that some times the Gods test you and at least they have a sense of Humour .
We had just completed the Ritual ( what a rush !!) and thank you to who ever carved the mizmaze on top of that hill and were trying to get back to the car ,for some reason we were having trouble finding the path we used to get to the top of the hill and after finding my self and my mastiff up to our knees in mud we decided to trek across the top of the fort and follow the road back down .
As we started across the hill a tall thin figure appeared to emerge up out of the ground ahead of us ,I assumed that he had walked up a rise in the hill much like a ship sailing towards you over the horizon, but my initial though was that of a Dark ages type warrior figure compleat with spear !
At this time we had been having fun ( I think thats the word ) with a local black coven and I felt really threatend especially as my Mastiff had put her hackles up and was rumbling ,so putting my wife behind me we approached the figure rather circumspectly .
As he approached he sort of morphed untill when he stopped to speak with us we found a caricature farmer giles type figure complete with coller less cotton shirt ,cordaroy trousers and little round rimless glasses.I should point out that he was in shirt sleeves whilst we were in coats and scarves and the wind was blowing a gale,
this guy knew the Arthur legends backwards and inside out as well,he instantly knew that the rather large shapeless bundle strapped over my back was ritual sword and he voluntered that he had always visited the Hill fort every day .Now this guy looked about 90 and just getting up the hill had knackerd me ,after a very pleasent 15 min conversation he wished us good luck and went on his way .
Standing there slight bemused we both realised that some thing strange had happend , a couple of yards further on it dawned on me that there was no rise in the ground where he had appeared and he must have come up out of the ground as indeed it looked ,I stopped dead and pointed this out to my wife ,who with her usual aplomb replied yes and now he`s vanished !
Looking back behind us there was no sign of him unless he had fallen off the edge of the fort and just to make sure he hadn`t we back tracked to try and find him with no sucess.The point I`m belabouring to make is that initially this figure was definantly one of menace ,so had we altered the forces on the hill and he had put on a physical appearence to check us out and realising that our intentions and workings were benign he then adopted a more friendly shape ?? one wonders at the forces that could place such a guardian with such abilities on a very remote and surley unworked spot .
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